Loved the article. But don’t feel defeatist yet. We can still learn to cultivate boredom! There’s no reason that stillness can’t make a comeback. Pendulums swing.
It could be my internet filter bubble (lol) but I’m seeing all sorts of news about a movement toward sobriety, recovery, meditation, and self-actualization.
Granted a lot of it just gets gobbled up by the techno-utopian agenda: microdose to become more creative at work! meditate to manage the anxiety of being able to do nothing about climate change! stay sober so you have more energy to contribute to the growth based economy!
But some percentage of the people exposed to corporate mindfulness are going to find their curiosity piqued. They’re going to find boredom surprisingly delightful, even liberating. They’re (we’re) going to rebel through radical rest—simple daily stillness that bucks the trends of using TV and TikTok to recharge and that therefore creates no profits for the media empires who reinforce the hegemony that is degrading the human experience and destroying the ecosystem.
We’re out here. (FAR out, obviously 😅.) And there are more of us than there would be if it was just the monks and nuns doing the recruiting by word of mouth and by simple presence.
My wife, a former librarian, wisely suggested some honest-to-goodness old style books to my teen daughter. Seeing her sitting on a couch with a book in hand, reading it, getting another one from the library, repeating, and not scrolling TikTok, not participating in the Matrix during this time, causes a warm, happy feeling of hope and gratefulness to my partner for finding something more engaging in reality, more sustaining, for this young lady I love.
Lovely! Must be the best feeling in the world, knowing you and your wife are doing it right against impossibly powerful forces trying to do the opposite. Congrats Joe!!
I spoke to my partner who led the charge on this and she pointed out that this effort to find books that would appeal to our daughter was not a single magical moment. This was a labor of love over years checking out piles of books from our library to see if anything would be of interest. And finally, the piles of books began to produce nibbles of interest and then a book was read, and more, and more. It takes time and patience and love to seed the ground, provide the material and hope for something to change. I am so grateful for libraries to check out piles of books - why buy, right? and for my wife to finally touch our daughter’s heart and mind with something outside the Matrix, something real and good.
"What—are you saying it was definitely better when you were a kid? That’s weird. It’s unlikely you and I—and the other 27,000 people reading this—share birth year so either this blog is the center of a birthdate statistical singularity of 90s kids or you and I are victims of the same cognitive bias".
Or the world has been getting progressively worse for several decades now in many areas than matter (except LGBTQ rights and such, which mostly affects a small percentage of the population, and those are still getting the same regression in other areas like education, healthcare and home costs, depression inducing lifestyle, and so on, like everybody else, so...)
The line "Oppenheimer would say it’s because kids are unaware of the world’s cruelty and bitterness" is just hit me so much. I believe that the children of today will have amazing childhood, just like when I was a child in economic crisis. Being adult is literally wild and full of unexpected events.
The artwork you chose was nostalgic for me. I had to check with my nan if it was one she had. We are losing our grandfather and anything that makes me remember time with them is hitting me profoundly
Trust me, I sympathize both as a parent and as a human being. I certainly don't mind being in any era without AI destroying the essence of humanity.
And I was a technological optimist. But there is a time when you realize that simple categories no longer fit and there is a beauty in not destroying everything
I agree with aspects of your claim here, though it seems a bit absolutist. There are still young people who are rooted in culture and community beyond the doldrums of the internet. You just have to get offline to find them...
Good point! We internet people forget that even though social media has billions of users, no platform has the full 9 billion of us. I have my doubts about whether the venn diagram of all the various social app options might stretch at least to all teenagers though.
It’s just easy to forget that while we’re online, we’re basically in an illusory psychedelic trip. This “cyberspace” doesn’t really exist and the apparent opinions of people on it don’t map perfectly to the real concerns of the (presumable) swaths of unplugged Humans.
How do I feel? I am not sure I understand the question. To be honest in my original note I was just joking. But let me think for a bit. My prime "nostalgia years" ran from about 1960 to 1975. Hm. I guess it is true that something about the culture in those years, from the popular music to the politics, *feels* more important than other durations of the same length. But were they? More important than 1930-1945? Clearly not. More important than 1975-1990? Maybe. That period did see the introduction of mini- and microcomputers. But maybe. 1990-2005 embraced the development of the internet, which is a significant point. 2005-2020, social media. You just have to take a bus today to see how big that is. And contemporaries today have Taylor Swift ...
Much of the problem comes from young people analysing this as an essential problem of the age when what's closer to the truth is that they are on drugs and unwilling to admit it (they only toy with the addiction analogy unseriously). Sure, they've been led into this by systemic forces we ought to dismantle but a more natural, humane existence still awaits anyone who accepts some responsibility for their own well-being. You're in the bowels of the crack den and at your lowest, though ultimately it's not your fault - still, are you going to be the one who says that things can't get better, or the one who tries to assert control?
Nostalgia is a phenomenon much more deeply rooted in human history than what has happened to the last couple of generations of privileged first-world children surrounded by technology. And our "homesickness" will continue to persist for many more generations in a very similar way.
I am surprised by your transition towards a certain technophobia. Technology undoubtedly has certain risks, but it has also allowed us to maintain and access our memories in a much more vivid way.
Children of today will recreate their past experiences in ways we cannot currently foresee. I find it overly dramatic and exaggerated to believe that they will not have a substantial childhood to look back on.
The opposite of techno optimism isn't technophobia but techno realism. If you only see the good in technology you're doomed to never question why you ended up here and will remain a slave of the decision makers that chose this particular road instead of slight variations of it where we'd be better off. This isn't a black and white issue. There's more shades than optimism or phobia. I'm sometimes optimistic and sometimes not so much. Never technophobic per se.
The opposite of techno optimism is in fact technopesimism or technofobia. But I understand what you mean about all the nuanced positions in the middle. I just pointed that your position, well balanced around the techno realism, seemed to me transitioning towards a “certain” level closer to that other extreme. I just don’t share the too dark vision you presented here, although I usually agree with your perspective and thoughts, that’s all. Sometimes, the current and near shadows don’t let us see the big picture. We’re not so well and not so bad as it seems. We’ve not that importance in history. Thank you anyway for your interesting reflection and answering.
Most of them are going to be horrified that you are getting sentimental about dial up.
First, nostalgia as you describe it is pretty much a modern thing and it comes in phases. Everyone wants modern furniture, sounds, art and then it flips and everyone wants Victorian. Except the Victorians thought that was modern and Colonial was so passe.
Pundits may have said everything was better when they were young, old women looked at refrigeration and washing machines and turned their back on the past. Old men looked at power tools and threw out their drills.
We are meant to live in the future. All nostalgia does is romanticize the past with all the annoying bits covered up.
Kids coming up will negotiate their own pace. And that may mean they'll have shorter attention spans. Or it may mean that they'll switch learning modes and figure out a new way to learn.
I was told that my generation would never do anything because we were glued to the TV and we would be at the mercy of big advertisers and our attention spans would be shot because of commercials and comics.
Those would be your parents and grandparents.
The kids will be fine. As long as no one tries to sell them a fantasy world where everything was peachy.
Kids will be fine because we redefine what "fine" means with every generation. Some things are gained with progress and new technology. Some things are lost. It's always a trade-off. If you ignore one side you do a disservice to those feeling the consequences. Sometimes the trade-off is net positive sometimes negative. Let's not be so categorical to the point of denying this simple truth.
You turned 30. You woke up one morning and suddenly everything changed?
Yes, that happens. Sometimes it's something as stupid as not being able to find your favorite soda. Sometimes, it's what you described.
If you read novels from the 1950s, you'll recognize the fear that the world is moving too fast. And children are anxious then too. No one knows what's coming. (Which I think is the reason for the explosion in science fiction. It was comforting that someone was laying out a road map.)
Except the children grew up and figured it out. The pace of modern life sped up. But like cars, people who thought 45 was speeding in the 1930s are driving 70 without batting an eye. Things speed up and we accustom ourselves to the new pace.
But here's a thought. Instead of trying to stop time from moving, live in the future.
You tell me all the time AI is coming -- don't look back, look forward.
You might want to read Ray Bradbury BTW -- a lot of his stories deal with your concerns.
Haha I'm actually 31. But no, I'm not concerned for me. I just think it's too easy to fall for the idea that because technology happens--and it happens with a specific form--we should just accept the good things it brings and ignore the bad things. I frequent the pessimist's archive to remind myself how pessimistic we tend to be when evaluating new technology. It's a great resource. I always feel part of the story is missing, though: no one seems to stop to wonder what we lose in not taking the roads we don't take. If you never stop to consider why you're here specifically, in this future, then you're doomed to serve very well the wishes of those who brought you here. I prefer to reflect from time to time just in case I happen to disagree. Change is rarely as bad as techno-pessimists foresee. It's also rarely as good as techno-optimists recall.
You don't read enough alternative science fiction.
😁
Most new technology bursts the bonds its creators envisioned. I guarantee you the men who invented TV weren't thinking it would lead to desegregation & Vietnam War protests. Bell Telephone thought the telephone would only have a business purpose and (IIRC) were reluctant to put phones in private homes.
Technology is not good or bad necessarily - but if you think of time as a river, what happens if you try and dam it at a certain point? If you know what you're doing, you get hydropower. If you don't you get a swamp.
Where I agree with you is that we should be thinking of not the material future we face but of new ways to think about futuring.
I love Ray Bradbury and in one of his stories, someone from the 1950s is resurrected in the future. His body has been found because the future humans are digging up graveyards and erasing the past so they can move on. It's all very different for the resurrected man. That future is so different from what he expected.
Except the first thing that happens when they revive him, is the man reviving him hands him a cigarette.
Very futuristic - just didn't assume there would be a world where men didn't smoke.
It will be something like that - something like Bradbury's cigarette - that we all accept as part of the natural order which people younger than me will find hilarious that we expected.
But let's look at the difference between your first comment and this one. Your first comment is about nostalgia (which you can guess I am not a fan of) and this one is about the road not taken.
Those are two different approaches. The second one is useful because it reimagines the future based on the past. It's not stuck in the past. It doesn't ignore why we didn't keep things the way they were in the past. It says I liked [this] and how could we repurpose [this] to work going forward?
Nostalgia is for when you've had one too many drinks at your high school reunion. Everything was rosy and wouldn't it be great if we just were back in high school.
When my mother was born, Lindbergh had just crossed the Atlantic.
My grandparents who had left Ireland five years before could only write a letter and wait for it to make its way across the Atlantic to Dublin to Donegal to the village postmistress hopefully to be picked up when one of their families came down on Sunday for church.
There are no antibiotics. There is no running water. There is no electric. Both of their families are still using donkey and cart. When my great uncles got the flu in 1918, my grandmother sat with them until they died - neither one of them had seen 21.
I am the grandchild of people who believed it always gets better if you make it better. I have yet to find that to be untrue.
And you will never die because you have not died yet, by the same logic.
I remember my 20s and 30s. All of them held more hope than now. My children may not even get to grow up because of AGI.
When I was in Bavaria, I briefly stayed at a religious community that barely used electricity. I missed some things but much was beautiful - the feel of community, the nightly gathering by the inn fire, the morning crispness of animals and farmers.
I have heard the saying that life on the body is easier, but easier on the spirit. I find it to be true.
And as you may have guessed, Irish American. I'm pretty sure someone was whispering to me in my crib -- "Welcome to the world, baby girl! Now, let's talk about how you plan a funeral."
Dying is familiar to me.
Again, read science fiction from the 1930s-1950s. There's a great fear of super computers - except what they were talking about was an IBM style machine. You have more computing power in your phone.
Before you worry about AGI, think about the resources it will require. What will generate those resources? If it makes human beings irrelevant, where's their market?
Then remind yourself that the self proclaimed boy genius took a company worth $45B and pretty much burnt it to the ground. If AI is actually going to be taking over, the first thing it will do is make Elon Musk obsolete.
Do you camp? It sounds like you could use some nature.
Loved the article. But don’t feel defeatist yet. We can still learn to cultivate boredom! There’s no reason that stillness can’t make a comeback. Pendulums swing.
It could be my internet filter bubble (lol) but I’m seeing all sorts of news about a movement toward sobriety, recovery, meditation, and self-actualization.
Granted a lot of it just gets gobbled up by the techno-utopian agenda: microdose to become more creative at work! meditate to manage the anxiety of being able to do nothing about climate change! stay sober so you have more energy to contribute to the growth based economy!
But some percentage of the people exposed to corporate mindfulness are going to find their curiosity piqued. They’re going to find boredom surprisingly delightful, even liberating. They’re (we’re) going to rebel through radical rest—simple daily stillness that bucks the trends of using TV and TikTok to recharge and that therefore creates no profits for the media empires who reinforce the hegemony that is degrading the human experience and destroying the ecosystem.
We’re out here. (FAR out, obviously 😅.) And there are more of us than there would be if it was just the monks and nuns doing the recruiting by word of mouth and by simple presence.
Very good indeed. We, parents, are very worried
I find this really true and even more scary. I miss times I only heard about from my parents.
Absolutely the truth!
My wife, a former librarian, wisely suggested some honest-to-goodness old style books to my teen daughter. Seeing her sitting on a couch with a book in hand, reading it, getting another one from the library, repeating, and not scrolling TikTok, not participating in the Matrix during this time, causes a warm, happy feeling of hope and gratefulness to my partner for finding something more engaging in reality, more sustaining, for this young lady I love.
Lovely! Must be the best feeling in the world, knowing you and your wife are doing it right against impossibly powerful forces trying to do the opposite. Congrats Joe!!
I spoke to my partner who led the charge on this and she pointed out that this effort to find books that would appeal to our daughter was not a single magical moment. This was a labor of love over years checking out piles of books from our library to see if anything would be of interest. And finally, the piles of books began to produce nibbles of interest and then a book was read, and more, and more. It takes time and patience and love to seed the ground, provide the material and hope for something to change. I am so grateful for libraries to check out piles of books - why buy, right? and for my wife to finally touch our daughter’s heart and mind with something outside the Matrix, something real and good.
"What—are you saying it was definitely better when you were a kid? That’s weird. It’s unlikely you and I—and the other 27,000 people reading this—share birth year so either this blog is the center of a birthdate statistical singularity of 90s kids or you and I are victims of the same cognitive bias".
Or the world has been getting progressively worse for several decades now in many areas than matter (except LGBTQ rights and such, which mostly affects a small percentage of the population, and those are still getting the same regression in other areas like education, healthcare and home costs, depression inducing lifestyle, and so on, like everybody else, so...)
The line "Oppenheimer would say it’s because kids are unaware of the world’s cruelty and bitterness" is just hit me so much. I believe that the children of today will have amazing childhood, just like when I was a child in economic crisis. Being adult is literally wild and full of unexpected events.
The artwork you chose was nostalgic for me. I had to check with my nan if it was one she had. We are losing our grandfather and anything that makes me remember time with them is hitting me profoundly
Trust me, I sympathize both as a parent and as a human being. I certainly don't mind being in any era without AI destroying the essence of humanity.
And I was a technological optimist. But there is a time when you realize that simple categories no longer fit and there is a beauty in not destroying everything
I agree with aspects of your claim here, though it seems a bit absolutist. There are still young people who are rooted in culture and community beyond the doldrums of the internet. You just have to get offline to find them...
Then perhaps this isn't about them.
Good point! We internet people forget that even though social media has billions of users, no platform has the full 9 billion of us. I have my doubts about whether the venn diagram of all the various social app options might stretch at least to all teenagers though.
It’s just easy to forget that while we’re online, we’re basically in an illusory psychedelic trip. This “cyberspace” doesn’t really exist and the apparent opinions of people on it don’t map perfectly to the real concerns of the (presumable) swaths of unplugged Humans.
I am 82 -- 82 1/2 -- and my nostalgia is about forty times more intense than yours.
I'm curious, how do you feel about this?
How do I feel? I am not sure I understand the question. To be honest in my original note I was just joking. But let me think for a bit. My prime "nostalgia years" ran from about 1960 to 1975. Hm. I guess it is true that something about the culture in those years, from the popular music to the politics, *feels* more important than other durations of the same length. But were they? More important than 1930-1945? Clearly not. More important than 1975-1990? Maybe. That period did see the introduction of mini- and microcomputers. But maybe. 1990-2005 embraced the development of the internet, which is a significant point. 2005-2020, social media. You just have to take a bus today to see how big that is. And contemporaries today have Taylor Swift ...
Much of the problem comes from young people analysing this as an essential problem of the age when what's closer to the truth is that they are on drugs and unwilling to admit it (they only toy with the addiction analogy unseriously). Sure, they've been led into this by systemic forces we ought to dismantle but a more natural, humane existence still awaits anyone who accepts some responsibility for their own well-being. You're in the bowels of the crack den and at your lowest, though ultimately it's not your fault - still, are you going to be the one who says that things can't get better, or the one who tries to assert control?
Nostalgia is a phenomenon much more deeply rooted in human history than what has happened to the last couple of generations of privileged first-world children surrounded by technology. And our "homesickness" will continue to persist for many more generations in a very similar way.
I am surprised by your transition towards a certain technophobia. Technology undoubtedly has certain risks, but it has also allowed us to maintain and access our memories in a much more vivid way.
Children of today will recreate their past experiences in ways we cannot currently foresee. I find it overly dramatic and exaggerated to believe that they will not have a substantial childhood to look back on.
The opposite of techno optimism isn't technophobia but techno realism. If you only see the good in technology you're doomed to never question why you ended up here and will remain a slave of the decision makers that chose this particular road instead of slight variations of it where we'd be better off. This isn't a black and white issue. There's more shades than optimism or phobia. I'm sometimes optimistic and sometimes not so much. Never technophobic per se.
The opposite of techno optimism is in fact technopesimism or technofobia. But I understand what you mean about all the nuanced positions in the middle. I just pointed that your position, well balanced around the techno realism, seemed to me transitioning towards a “certain” level closer to that other extreme. I just don’t share the too dark vision you presented here, although I usually agree with your perspective and thoughts, that’s all. Sometimes, the current and near shadows don’t let us see the big picture. We’re not so well and not so bad as it seems. We’ve not that importance in history. Thank you anyway for your interesting reflection and answering.
Oh please.
Most of them are going to be horrified that you are getting sentimental about dial up.
First, nostalgia as you describe it is pretty much a modern thing and it comes in phases. Everyone wants modern furniture, sounds, art and then it flips and everyone wants Victorian. Except the Victorians thought that was modern and Colonial was so passe.
Pundits may have said everything was better when they were young, old women looked at refrigeration and washing machines and turned their back on the past. Old men looked at power tools and threw out their drills.
We are meant to live in the future. All nostalgia does is romanticize the past with all the annoying bits covered up.
Kids coming up will negotiate their own pace. And that may mean they'll have shorter attention spans. Or it may mean that they'll switch learning modes and figure out a new way to learn.
I was told that my generation would never do anything because we were glued to the TV and we would be at the mercy of big advertisers and our attention spans would be shot because of commercials and comics.
Those would be your parents and grandparents.
The kids will be fine. As long as no one tries to sell them a fantasy world where everything was peachy.
They'll figure it out.
Kids will be fine because we redefine what "fine" means with every generation. Some things are gained with progress and new technology. Some things are lost. It's always a trade-off. If you ignore one side you do a disservice to those feeling the consequences. Sometimes the trade-off is net positive sometimes negative. Let's not be so categorical to the point of denying this simple truth.
What simple truth?
You turned 30. You woke up one morning and suddenly everything changed?
Yes, that happens. Sometimes it's something as stupid as not being able to find your favorite soda. Sometimes, it's what you described.
If you read novels from the 1950s, you'll recognize the fear that the world is moving too fast. And children are anxious then too. No one knows what's coming. (Which I think is the reason for the explosion in science fiction. It was comforting that someone was laying out a road map.)
Except the children grew up and figured it out. The pace of modern life sped up. But like cars, people who thought 45 was speeding in the 1930s are driving 70 without batting an eye. Things speed up and we accustom ourselves to the new pace.
But here's a thought. Instead of trying to stop time from moving, live in the future.
You tell me all the time AI is coming -- don't look back, look forward.
You might want to read Ray Bradbury BTW -- a lot of his stories deal with your concerns.
Haha I'm actually 31. But no, I'm not concerned for me. I just think it's too easy to fall for the idea that because technology happens--and it happens with a specific form--we should just accept the good things it brings and ignore the bad things. I frequent the pessimist's archive to remind myself how pessimistic we tend to be when evaluating new technology. It's a great resource. I always feel part of the story is missing, though: no one seems to stop to wonder what we lose in not taking the roads we don't take. If you never stop to consider why you're here specifically, in this future, then you're doomed to serve very well the wishes of those who brought you here. I prefer to reflect from time to time just in case I happen to disagree. Change is rarely as bad as techno-pessimists foresee. It's also rarely as good as techno-optimists recall.
You don't read enough alternative science fiction.
😁
Most new technology bursts the bonds its creators envisioned. I guarantee you the men who invented TV weren't thinking it would lead to desegregation & Vietnam War protests. Bell Telephone thought the telephone would only have a business purpose and (IIRC) were reluctant to put phones in private homes.
Technology is not good or bad necessarily - but if you think of time as a river, what happens if you try and dam it at a certain point? If you know what you're doing, you get hydropower. If you don't you get a swamp.
Where I agree with you is that we should be thinking of not the material future we face but of new ways to think about futuring.
I love Ray Bradbury and in one of his stories, someone from the 1950s is resurrected in the future. His body has been found because the future humans are digging up graveyards and erasing the past so they can move on. It's all very different for the resurrected man. That future is so different from what he expected.
Except the first thing that happens when they revive him, is the man reviving him hands him a cigarette.
Very futuristic - just didn't assume there would be a world where men didn't smoke.
It will be something like that - something like Bradbury's cigarette - that we all accept as part of the natural order which people younger than me will find hilarious that we expected.
But let's look at the difference between your first comment and this one. Your first comment is about nostalgia (which you can guess I am not a fan of) and this one is about the road not taken.
Those are two different approaches. The second one is useful because it reimagines the future based on the past. It's not stuck in the past. It doesn't ignore why we didn't keep things the way they were in the past. It says I liked [this] and how could we repurpose [this] to work going forward?
Nostalgia is for when you've had one too many drinks at your high school reunion. Everything was rosy and wouldn't it be great if we just were back in high school.
The point is that things can indeed get worse. It doesnt help to be unable to recognize such.
Worse?
When my mother was born, Lindbergh had just crossed the Atlantic.
My grandparents who had left Ireland five years before could only write a letter and wait for it to make its way across the Atlantic to Dublin to Donegal to the village postmistress hopefully to be picked up when one of their families came down on Sunday for church.
There are no antibiotics. There is no running water. There is no electric. Both of their families are still using donkey and cart. When my great uncles got the flu in 1918, my grandmother sat with them until they died - neither one of them had seen 21.
I am the grandchild of people who believed it always gets better if you make it better. I have yet to find that to be untrue.
And you will never die because you have not died yet, by the same logic.
I remember my 20s and 30s. All of them held more hope than now. My children may not even get to grow up because of AGI.
When I was in Bavaria, I briefly stayed at a religious community that barely used electricity. I missed some things but much was beautiful - the feel of community, the nightly gathering by the inn fire, the morning crispness of animals and farmers.
I have heard the saying that life on the body is easier, but easier on the spirit. I find it to be true.
Sean, I'm 65.
And as you may have guessed, Irish American. I'm pretty sure someone was whispering to me in my crib -- "Welcome to the world, baby girl! Now, let's talk about how you plan a funeral."
Dying is familiar to me.
Again, read science fiction from the 1930s-1950s. There's a great fear of super computers - except what they were talking about was an IBM style machine. You have more computing power in your phone.
Before you worry about AGI, think about the resources it will require. What will generate those resources? If it makes human beings irrelevant, where's their market?
Then remind yourself that the self proclaimed boy genius took a company worth $45B and pretty much burnt it to the ground. If AI is actually going to be taking over, the first thing it will do is make Elon Musk obsolete.
Do you camp? It sounds like you could use some nature.
I kinda agree. A little too saccharine and categorical for my taste.